but the speaker and mitch mcconnell are speaking very vaguely about revenue. they're not talking about specific revenue, where it comes from, they're not talking about specific cuts. they're simply saying, we're willing to raise revenue. well, that's great. why? what the president did this last week is he put a plan on the table and say, here is my plan. if you have a better plan, i want to see it. right now, wa he's doing, he's shadow boxing. they're saying things rhetorically, but they're not putting any specific -- >> it's december 3rd. >> it's december 3rd. >> but my concern is, the president put a big number on the table with regard to taxes and a small new number on the table with regard to spending. we are mixing things. we have to avoid the fiscal cliff, do a meaningful down payment on spending and taxes, build a bridge to a grand bargain. the big deal is going to be done next year. this year, the objective ought to be in the short-term reduce the deficit for next year and our long-term goals, baselines are gains. they could be manipulated by all sides